Tuesday, December 13, 2011

Dear Prudie


Dear Prudence
Do people think the college newspaper editor should say anything negative about the editor she thinks is lazy and doesn't get along with? She was asked for a "candid" assessment of him by the professional journalist she worked with as an intern because he has applied for the same internship. I said to make her comments minimal and focused on what he's like at the paper (not that he drinks and skips classes!). But some HR professionals responded to me that they are trained to never say anything negative about a former employee. I understand everyone is terrified of lawsuits. But how does that help potential employers trying to vet the best candidate -- and avoid bad ones!
 ·  ·  · about an hour ago · 

  • 6 people like this.

    • Molly McLaughlin She could also simply tell the hiring editor that she'd rather not give a reference - that might get the message across.
      about an hour ago ·  ·  10

    • Jennifer Nation I think that all they are really allowed to say is that they would hire or would not hire them again. It's very shaky what could be considered libel or slandering.
      about an hour ago ·  ·  2

    • Cindy Dukes Manning Most HR's now only allow to give out dates of employement and if they are available for rehire - to which she could just respond "NO!"
      about an hour ago ·  ·  2

    • Kelvin Childs ‎"But how does that help potential employers trying to vet the best candidate -- and avoid bad ones!" It doesn't, but that isn't the concern of the people who gave you that advice.
      about an hour ago ·  ·  2

    • Tia Nelson It seemed that he was her superior, not the other way around. Also, I wonder... if he put her down as a reference then she should talk to him and explain that she doesn't feel comfortable being a reference, but if the journalist called her (and was not told to by the applicant), it seems a lot like a background check more than a referral, and I would probably bow out at that point and explain I wasn't comfortable discussing a superior's performance if the superior hadn't given permission for her to do so (by explicitly using her as a referral).
      about an hour ago ·  ·  3

    • Ashley Novack HR professionals are in a very different position than most people when asked for a reference. They are giving a reference on behalf of a company not just themselves. This girl was asked for a "candid" personal reference. She should reply but keep it professional not personal.
      about an hour ago ·  ·  15

    • Ingrid Orellana along the lines of what jennifer said, i've heard a prospective employer can simply ask "would you rehire this person if you had the opportunity?" and your yes/no answer will give them the answer they're looking for
      about an hour ago ·  ·  2

    • Rachel Lynne Cabrera My advice is to turn every negative comment into a subtle backhanded compliment. "He's not the best at [x], but we really had fun working together." "He wasn't the best [x] we had, but he made the best brownies."

      You're being honest, but you're also making it look like you're not bashing him. :P
      about an hour ago ·  ·  2

    • Charlotte LeBlanc Vandervoort my husband and I both have worked for bosses and with co-workers that were so incompetent we had no idea how they got the job in the first place. If you dont show up for work and/or your work is subpar, that should be reported to a potential employer. The buck should stop somewhere with a bad employee.
      about an hour ago ·  ·  2

    • Anne Reid Oppermann As I recall, the person seeking the reference is a former boss of the LW. The current editor is the LW's boss. Good advice about what to focus on. I think the LW should be constructive and candid. If you toe the line based on what HR wants, you can verify dates of employment and nothing more.
      about an hour ago ·  ·  1

    • Dani Purple So make a comment like "our styles didn't mesh well. I give timely responses and am always available" :D
      about an hour ago ·  ·  4

    • Luis Cabrera checking references is the most pointless part of the hiring process. I'm sure most people wouldn't be stupid enough to list someone they couldn't guarantee completely glowing reviews from.
      about an hour ago ·  ·  1

    • Chris Blake If she's not listed as a reference and isn't an HR person or organizational superior to the person in question, she's under no obligation to be anything but truthful. If that means the person in question doesn't end up looking good, so be it. She's better off maintaining her credibility with her former employer than helping someone else slouch along into a good position they may not deserve.
      about an hour ago ·  ·  9

    • Dannette Carter ‎"Stop"
      about an hour ago via Mobile · 

    • Kimberly Morgan Primary references (the ones the applicant lists as references) are usually pretty worthless in the hiring process. However, if the hiring company asks the primary reference for someone else that worked with the person, that can have benefit because the secondary reference hasn't been hand-chosen by the applicant, nor possibly primed for what to say. I think you gave good advice, to keep the comments minimal and confined to work.
      about an hour ago ·  ·  3

    • Denise DeRocher You'd be surprised, Luis. I've called for references in situations where the person I called was obviously surprised to be asked - and clearly felt awkward. There's a lot to be gleaned from what isn't said.
      about an hour ago ·  ·  3

    • Patty Devaux But, this isn't someone being asked who is in the role of HR. This is collegues talking to each other. This sort of outside of the offical channels checking happens all the time with no fear of lawsuits.

      She should answer candidly about his work issues - i.e. he doesn't make himself available to his staff, he's slow to reply, etc. None of that will get her in trouble - it's her honest experience with him. It WILL come back and bite her in the ass if she doesn't answer honestly and they hire him and figure out he's a lousy worker - there goes any hope she has of using the person asking as a reference in the future.
      about an hour ago ·  ·  3

    • Aubrey Nye Hamilton I thought your advice was on target. As I recall, the LW was approached by a former boss who knew the LW is currently working for the applicant. I understood it to be one of those backdoor phone calls that a prospective employer will make. I agree that the LW should be circumspect but factual, focusing only on the job performance of the applicant. He/She is not part of HR and has no obligation to act as if he/she is.
      about an hour ago ·  ·  3

    • Dawn Marie Pickett Currin According to Ask A Manager (who I absolutely LOVE for stuff like this) there is NO law against giving out a bad recommendation, just that everything you say has to be truthful (otherwise it's defamation). So, if the letter writer feels like giving a candid response, she can say exactly how this guy performed his job, as long as it's truthful. Or, if she's uncomfortable with being that candid, she can just say "Yes I worked with him but I have no further comment", which would probably do just as good of a job as a bad review.
      about an hour ago ·  ·  3

    • Rosaria Francesca Isn't there a difference between being an HR professional and being listed as a reference? Granted, the editor didn't list her as a reference, but I still feel like this person isn't bound to hold her tongue... within reason. I've ALWAYS believed that you still need to watch what you say as a professional- stick to facts not opinions. What someone does in their spare time is one thing, but missing deadlines is another. Use discretion, and if you're still not sure then I'd go with Molly's advice and say that you aren't comfortable giving a reference. I would hate to call a list of references, have them all politely stretch the truth, and then hire a bum.
      about an hour ago ·  ·  2

    • Dandi Bond I've always been told (by my corporate attorney father) that if you're listed as a professional reference you basically can only say if they actually worked at the place they said and verify the dates stated, but if you're listed as a personal reference you're allowed a little more leeway. It is scary today to think that if your comments prevent someone from getting a job, you could be culpable for damages.
      about an hour ago ·  ·  1

    • Krystal Mullins I was always taught that in answering a reference call about someone, that if you are going to give an honest assessment about them and that assessment isn't in their favor that the only thing you can say is "I can't give you a positive review of this person". And that, that is the only thing you can say to protect yourself from a lawsuit AND convey the information you want.
      about an hour ago ·  ·  5

    • Nikki Moyer She's not in HR nor is she his manager, therefore is not bound by any laws, regulations or code to not speak negatively about him. Someone contacted her to get her honest opinion about this person as a coworker/editor...
      about an hour ago ·  ·  5

    • Katie Tinsley McDonald I hate references. I run a child care center and so often I want to just scream DO NOT HIRE this person to work with children! But I can't I try to take a long time to answer questions and say "um well..." and use a disapointed tone to help get my point across.
      59 minutes ago ·  ·  2

    • Shannon-Fun Tarvin I agreed with your advice. Leave the personal attacks out (and comments about the private life), but let the potential employer know that the person doesn't get back and doesn't cooperate in group settings. She COULD say at the beginning (if she is that worried about it) "Well, it may just be me that thinks this, but this is how I feel about the job so and so does..." And then she should mention a few other newspaper staff people that the employer could call to talk to about the guy in question. That way it gives the employer a chance to see if others think he is good or bad, and it gives a better impression of the girl being asked because she wants the employer to have as much info as possible which shows she isn't trying to railroad the guy but would rather be fair about everything.
      59 minutes ago ·  ·  3

    • Marc Naimark She's his "employee" more than his "employer". Except that she's neither: she writes for a student newspaper.
      57 minutes ago ·  ·  4

    • Tristram Vahan Draper I think you say "I do not feel comfortable giving this person a recommendation" or something non-committal. What you do not say speaks volumes.
      54 minutes ago ·  ·  1

    • Sandy Stark There isn't anything "right" or "fair" on this subject these days. Bosses have too much power because if they don't like you for whatever reason, they can ruin your life by answering "no" to the question of would they hire you back or not. That shouldn't be a viable question in the first place. Just because I don't like someone, doesn't mean they shouldn't be given another opportunity that would better suit them somewhere else. When employers don't like someone, they make it personal.
      50 minutes ago ·  ·  1

    • Lili Espinoza I think a "no comment" is an efficient response.. it says a lot without really saying much
      49 minutes ago · 

    • Jess Nut I once had to tell my brother not to put me down as a personal reference because I would answer any questions truthfully and that might not be the best for him (he had a poor work ethic at the time). I think it's important for people to talk more about work then they do. The taboo of not discussing salaries or team performance really holds people back from being the best they can. Someone needs to have a candid talk to this guy about what he's doing wrong so he has a chance to fix it if he wants to stay in the industry.
      38 minutes ago ·  ·  2

    • Jann Durkin In every job I've had, I've been told to always refer these requests to the HR office.
      36 minutes ago ·  ·  1

  • @Rachel said, " My advice is to turn every negative comment into a subtle backhanded compliment. "He's not the best at [x], but we really had fun working together." "He wasn't the best [x] we had, but he made the best brownies."
    You're being honest, but you're also making it look like you're not bashing him. :P"
    Except that you are?
    idk, seems like work to me to think up an entire backwards comment in weed-speak.
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